Comments on: Wade Burleson and Religious Intolerance http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance News & Commentary About All Things Baptist Sat, 04 Feb 2012 19:32:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Wade Burleson and Religious Intolerance, Take Two | the big daddy weave http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-40966 Wade Burleson and Religious Intolerance, Take Two | the big daddy weave Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:48:21 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-40966 [...] It must be noted that Burleson’s anti-Muslim attitude is part of his broader intolerance towards other people of faith and those with no faith.  Back in April, Burleson opened up a session of the Oklahoma State Senate with a “prayer” demeaning a broad group of folks with different convictions - particularly atheists who Burleson characterized as second-class citizens.  In this prayer, Burleson even made an attempt to link America’s atheists and humanists to evil totalitarian regimes (Hitler, Stalin, etc.).  You can read my post titled Wade Burleson and Religious Intolerance here. [...] [...] It must be noted that Burleson’s anti-Muslim attitude is part of his broader intolerance towards other people of faith and those with no faith.  Back in April, Burleson opened up a session of the Oklahoma State Senate with a “prayer” demeaning a broad group of folks with different convictions – particularly atheists who Burleson characterized as second-class citizens.  In this prayer, Burleson even made an attempt to link America’s atheists and humanists to evil totalitarian regimes (Hitler, Stalin, etc.).  You can read my post titled Wade Burleson and Religious Intolerance here. [...]

]]> By: big daddy weave http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-26527 big daddy weave Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:26:43 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-26527 Lee, I think Wade did a little more from the floor of the Oklahoma Senate than just express a preference for Christians and the influence of Christian values. Read the comment thread on his blog and see the many conservative Southern Baptist dissenters who commented... How exactly is the New Baptist Covenant not "tolerant" ? What's that assertion even based on? Lee,

I think Wade did a little more from the floor of the Oklahoma Senate than just express a preference for Christians and the influence of Christian values. Read the comment thread on his blog and see the many conservative Southern Baptist dissenters who commented…

How exactly is the New Baptist Covenant not “tolerant” ? What’s that assertion even based on?

]]> By: Lee http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-26513 Lee Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:00:06 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-26513 The NBC can couch it in whatever language they want to, they are not "tolerant" of the views of all Baptists. I don't see that expressing a preference for government leadership who claim a Christian faith and the influence of Christian values in their life is "intolerance." The NBC can couch it in whatever language they want to, they are not “tolerant” of the views of all Baptists.

I don’t see that expressing a preference for government leadership who claim a Christian faith and the influence of Christian values in their life is “intolerance.”

]]> By: Ken Coffee http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-26186 Ken Coffee Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:29:56 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-26186 Apparently, diversity in the minds of some does not extend to those of Wade Burleson's ilk, of which there are many. Apparently, diversity in the minds of some does not extend to those of Wade Burleson’s ilk, of which there are many.

]]> By: Chuck http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-25631 Chuck Sun, 05 Apr 2009 03:25:31 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-25631 Again, Burleson's been cozied-up to by NBC'ers because he and a couple of other young SBC dissenting bloggers accepted the invite to visit Carter prior to the NBC and talked nicely about him, and positively about the NBC. Burleson overlooked Carter's pluralism tendencies, and Carter overlooked Burleson's conservatism. It's a great example of compromising your principles in the pursuit of a false unity. New Baptists and orthodox Baptists will not find unity on some issues. Again, Burleson’s been cozied-up to by NBC’ers because he and a couple of other young SBC dissenting bloggers accepted the invite to visit Carter prior to the NBC and talked nicely about him, and positively about the NBC.

Burleson overlooked Carter’s pluralism tendencies, and Carter overlooked Burleson’s conservatism. It’s a great example of compromising your principles in the pursuit of a false unity.

New Baptists and orthodox Baptists will not find unity on some issues.

]]> By: Big Daddy Weave http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-25361 Big Daddy Weave Sat, 04 Apr 2009 03:32:38 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-25361 Leaders from the Baptist organizations that comprise the informal alliance known as the New Baptist Covenant have affirmed a set of basic yet broad principles. Featured speakers at future New Baptist Covenant Celebrations should be able to generally affirm a few broad principles such as religious freedom and respect for religious diversity. We're not talking about affirming a BFM creed. We're talking about affirming the notion of freedom, the core values of soul freedom, bible freedom, church freedom, and religious freedom. Wade Burleson has articulated a view that is incompatible with the traditional Baptist understanding of religious freedom. His view of an institutional separation between church and state has more in common with the view articulated by John Calvin than it does with Thomas Helwys, John Clarke, or George Truett. So, yea, I think there are dozens of other Baptists, Black and White, Male and Female, who are more suited to speak at the New Baptist Covenant.... Leaders from the Baptist organizations that comprise the informal alliance known as the New Baptist Covenant have affirmed a set of basic yet broad principles. Featured speakers at future New Baptist Covenant Celebrations should be able to generally affirm a few broad principles such as religious freedom and respect for religious diversity.

We’re not talking about affirming a BFM creed. We’re talking about affirming the notion of freedom, the core values of soul freedom, bible freedom, church freedom, and religious freedom.

Wade Burleson has articulated a view that is incompatible with the traditional Baptist understanding of religious freedom. His view of an institutional separation between church and state has more in common with the view articulated by John Calvin than it does with Thomas Helwys, John Clarke, or George Truett.

So, yea, I think there are dozens of other Baptists, Black and White, Male and Female, who are more suited to speak at the New Baptist Covenant….

]]> By: Lee http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-25341 Lee Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:19:29 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-25341 If the New Baptist Covenant is as tolerant and open to freedom of the exchange of ideas as they say they are, then there should not be an objection to Wade Burleson giving an address at their meeting, regardless of his views as expressed before the Oklahoma senate. If the New Baptist Covenant is as tolerant and open to freedom of the exchange of ideas as they say they are, then there should not be an objection to Wade Burleson giving an address at their meeting, regardless of his views as expressed before the Oklahoma senate.

]]> By: Texas in Africa http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-25331 Texas in Africa Sat, 04 Apr 2009 00:32:50 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-25331 That's really disappointing and demonstrates that Burleson apparently lacks a good understanding of the kind of government the Founders wisely created. Since one of the very few mentions of religion in the text of the Constitution is the clause stating that there shall be no religious test for holding public office, it seems pretty clear that they believed anyone, regardless of faith background, could be qualified to lead this republic. As you say, Burleson is free and should vote for whomever he likes. But to wholesale dismiss the possibility that someone can't be a good leader in a democratic system if he or she doesn't believe in God is completely inappropriate. Quoting Lincoln's speech - in which it's clear that Lincoln believes there is a place for everyone in our society - immediately thereafter is beyond absurd. That’s really disappointing and demonstrates that Burleson apparently lacks a good understanding of the kind of government the Founders wisely created. Since one of the very few mentions of religion in the text of the Constitution is the clause stating that there shall be no religious test for holding public office, it seems pretty clear that they believed anyone, regardless of faith background, could be qualified to lead this republic.

As you say, Burleson is free and should vote for whomever he likes. But to wholesale dismiss the possibility that someone can’t be a good leader in a democratic system if he or she doesn’t believe in God is completely inappropriate. Quoting Lincoln’s speech – in which it’s clear that Lincoln believes there is a place for everyone in our society – immediately thereafter is beyond absurd.

]]> By: Bart Barber http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-25039 Bart Barber Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:20:58 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-25039 Granted, what I know about you online is very little. It is just that, of that small set of things that I know about you online [the passivism thing, the Alliance of Baptists thing, the anti-death-penalty thing], they all pointed me in a direction to expect this sort of position from you on the abortion question. That's all. For whatever time period that you were pro-life, I'm thankful for that. I didn't know that you were until you weren't. ;-) Had I happened upon a post from you back then articulating your opposition to abortion, then I would have been pleasantly surprised. And having visited your blog to look at the post in question, I see that the tone of the comments towards you seems to support my analysis rather than yours (not much hate mail there). Granted, what I know about you online is very little. It is just that, of that small set of things that I know about you online [the passivism thing, the Alliance of Baptists thing, the anti-death-penalty thing], they all pointed me in a direction to expect this sort of position from you on the abortion question. That’s all.

For whatever time period that you were pro-life, I’m thankful for that. I didn’t know that you were until you weren’t. ;-) Had I happened upon a post from you back then articulating your opposition to abortion, then I would have been pleasantly surprised.

And having visited your blog to look at the post in question, I see that the tone of the comments towards you seems to support my analysis rather than yours (not much hate mail there).

]]> By: Michael Westmoreland-White http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2009/04/wade-burleson-and-religious-intolerance.html#comment-24995 Michael Westmoreland-White Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:55:24 +0000 http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=1933#comment-24995 Bart, I'm afraid that DID come off wrong. I try to avoid stereotypes and, as my blog post relates, have belonged to "seamless garment" "consistently pro-life" groups most of my adult life. And I still believe that MOST abortions are wrong. Nor am I a "liberal" theologically or politically. Politically, I am a progressive populist and democratic socialist. Liberals give me a pain--almost as much as conservatives. :-) And theologically, I come from the evangelical (NOT-fundamentalist) tradition and from Anabaptist and Neoorthodox influences. Although my Baptist aversion to creeds is strong, I consider the Apostle's Creed a good summary of basic Christian belief and can affirm it without finger-crossing and with very few mentle footnotes. So, Bart, I suggest that what you know about me online is very little. But I get "internet heat" for my views regardless of what kind of reputation I have or not have. And discussing abortion is always likely to draw that heat. But now I have hi-jacked this thread. Sorry, BDW. Any other comments can be on my blog. I STILL think public prayers before legislative bodies are not only suspect in light of the First Amendment, but unwise and a civil religion watering down of true faith. Bart,
I’m afraid that DID come off wrong. I try to avoid stereotypes and, as my blog post relates, have belonged to “seamless garment” “consistently pro-life” groups most of my adult life.

And I still believe that MOST abortions are wrong.

Nor am I a “liberal” theologically or politically. Politically, I am a progressive populist and democratic socialist. Liberals give me a pain–almost as much as conservatives. :-)

And theologically, I come from the evangelical (NOT-fundamentalist) tradition and from Anabaptist and Neoorthodox influences. Although my Baptist aversion to creeds is strong, I consider the Apostle’s Creed a good summary of basic Christian belief and can affirm it without finger-crossing and with very few mentle footnotes.

So, Bart, I suggest that what you know about me online is very little.

But I get “internet heat” for my views regardless of what kind of reputation I have or not have. And discussing abortion is always likely to draw that heat.

But now I have hi-jacked this thread. Sorry, BDW. Any other comments can be on my blog.

I STILL think public prayers before legislative bodies are not only suspect in light of the First Amendment, but unwise and a civil religion watering down of true faith.

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