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Southeastern Seminary vs. Baptist Press

Last week in the SBC, the drama dealt with Calvinism.

This week’s drama deals with Mark “The Cussing Pastor” Driscoll, a Calvinist.

Over the weekend, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina brought Mark Driscoll to town for a conference.  Baptist Press, the PR-arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, responded with an article entitled Driscoll’s Vulgarity Draws Media Attention.  The article included this note from the brand viagra for sale editor:

EDITOR’S NOTE: The story contains references to sexual matters that Baptist Press tried to generic no prescription viagra veil somewhat in order to lessen the possibility of offending readers. However, Baptist Press needed to include a reference to these adult elements so that readers might fully grasp the importance of buy cialis pills online this news item.

Today, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary issued a response to the Baptist Press hit piece through their blog, Between The Times.  Here’s a snippet:

One of the speakers, Mark Driscoll, has received significant criticism from some Southern Baptists in recent days. At first the criticism was limited to ill-informed bloggers, but yesterday Baptist Press entered the fray with an article titled “Driscoll’s Vulgarity Draws Media Attention.” We were very disappointed in the BP piece, which we believe was inaccurate in content and cialis order online discount harsh in tone.

We by no means agree with everything Mark Driscoll says or does. This is true of any speaker we would invite to our campus, including many Southern Baptists. But because we are not independent fundamentalists, we believe that it is profitable to viagra in canada invite speakers who do not agree with us on every jot and tittle. We are humble enough to admit that we do not have all the answers and we can learn much from brothers and sisters who are not part of the Southern Baptist family. We believe our students can learn from a variety of conservative evangelical pastors without slavishly copying the buy pfizer viagra online ministries or convictions of any one leader.

Ouch.

As long-time readers know, the big daddy weave is not a fan of Macho Man Mark.  His attitude towards women not his use of http://www.hotelsrnamavrovo.com/lowest-priced-cialis a few foul words is what I find offensive.  A snippet of classic Mark Driscoll:

Driscoll also noted the position of Rob Bell, a pastor that he does not know personally but whose writings, including “Velvet Elvis,” he has read. Noting that Bell has called into question the virgin birth, Driscoll said, “The question that begs to be answered is, ‘Do we lose anything if we lose the virgin birth of Jesus Christ?’ …

“To the Lord Jesus, [such doubt] is insulting,” Driscoll said. “First of all, Mary said that she was a virgin. If she was really a lying whore, that does change the story. Because if the lying whore raises a young boy who says He is God, why believe the extravagant claims of the child of a lying whore? Following the just try! resurrection, Jesus’ mother Mary was with the disciples worshipping Him as God as part of the early church. Why would we believe the testimony of female viagra pills the resurrection of Jesus from a lying whore?

Below is a poem that I received via e-mail from a reader recently about Driscoll:

The Song of Mark Driscoll

And Mark said,

Loving is for sissies, and Jesus was a dude–
I don’t just mean he had a pair, I mostly mean he’s rude.

Acts of sinful nature are transformed in my eyes
To manly concupiscence, so I extol them to my guys.

I’ve got “daddy issues,” the likes you’ve never seen.
So I ignore all fruit of Spirit and insist real men are mean.

I’m groping for my manhood, but not inside my slacks
For I prefer the lies of culture to all the Bible’s facts.

I call Jesus “Macho Man” and re-cast him in my fears,
And I won’t admit my problems, ’cause problems are for queers.

I posture on the podium, and posture in the home!
And I posture in the coffee shops and posture on the phone!

I’m a man, O yes, I am!  Don’t say that I am meek.
Jesus said that he would bless them, but it’s not Him I seek.

It is the image in the mirror that’s all I need to know,
Plus a little crush on Calvin to put on a good show.

Grace is crying in the kitchen but I’ll turn the other cheek–
For now that I am famous, she knows better that she’s weak.

Love for Jesus is for chicks–and I’ll not say “I do.”
I’m no Bride of anyone–especially a dude.

Just try it, Jesus, go ahead–I’ll punch you in the eye!
Don’t talk of levitra in india love and unity and viagra for sale how for me you died.

A different Jesus!  That’s for me–a bully like myself.
“Relationship” is for the girls, and machismo is true wealth.

I won’t love you!  No I won’t!  Don’t say that you’re the buy levitra on-line Groom.
I’d rather have you emasculated, then put back in the tomb.

And it came to cheapest online price for generic viagra cheap price propecia pass, that the audience of Mark Driscoll could no longer put up with the preaching of a “different Jesus” as the Corinthians had, and so they feared God and repented of their idolatry.  And some of them were courageous and confronted Mark as did the brave priests in King Uzziah’s time, but they were persecuted and sore abused.  They continued to intercede for their deceived brother, but Mark’s sin had not yet reached full measure and the outcome of their intercession was not yet known . . .

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Discussion

  1. scott says:

    BDW,

    Do you have the link to Driscoll’s message?

  2. Lee says:

    I agree with Southeastern Seminary’s statement.

    I just picked up a Mark Driscoll book for the first time. I don’t know much about him, though I do know that Mars Hill Church stands out in the very secular environment of Seattle.

  3. Great post. Baptist Press should be ashamed.

  4. Brother BDW,

    Interesting fights going on out there…. Your article brought to my mind what the Apostle Paul, Silvanus and Timothy were communicating in agreement as the Thessalonians received this first letter…..

    1 Thessalonians 2:3-7 “For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive, (4) but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to order cialis vs viagra please God who tests our hearts. (5) For we never came with words of www.aytonuevacarteya.es flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed–God is witness. (6) Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ. (7) But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children.” ESV

    When a truth teller for Christ appeals to the crowd, they are entrusted with the gospel and there is a responsibility to speak, not to please man. This can be done in one of two ways, and it appears that on some occasions Driscoll allows himself to enjoy one of these two categories. One way is to not preach the buy cheap viagra online now uk gospel at all, but flatter people. The other way is to preach the gospel and flatter people at the same. In other words,…flattery can come in the form of nice words (without gospel,…a Joel Olsteen approach, not Driscoll) or flattery can come with harsh, corrosive and www.velvetclassic.net abusive words that may turn off one crowd, but to the delight of the flatterer…tends to please another crowd. Neither approach is condoned by scripture. Both approaches tickle a little, but tickle different crowds.

    That may be why this little spitting contest has ensued of which you are reporting.

    Blessings,
    Chris

  5. Leland Ross says:

    There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of how to buy cialis product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity. The above is from an article in Relevant Magazine that was quoted in the Wikipedia article. The little bit you used to cialis samples typify the man, Aaron, seems a bit lame to me. I mean, the only remotely objectionable word in it is “whore”, and if you just substitute “harlot” there could hardly be anyone at BP who’d object. I agree that SEBTS probably invited him for the wrong reasons, and BP objects for different wrong reasons.

    I hope this looks okay; you have some odd available tags, and no Preview option…

    Haruo

  6. Leland Ross says:

    There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity. The above is from an article in Relevant Magazine that was quoted in the Wikipedia article. The little bit you used to typify the man, Aaron, seems a bit lame to me. I mean, the only remotely objectionable word in it is “whore”, and if you just substitute “harlot” there could hardly be anyone at BP who’d object. I agree that SEBTS probably invited him for the wrong reasons, and BP objects for different wrong reasons.

    I hope this looks okay; you have some odd available tags, and no Preview option…

    Haruo

  7. I think your reading of Driscoll shows that there is indeed a generational gap between the two of us.

    Most girls/women from my generation (the generation that Driscoll preaches to) would be, um, highly offended if they were called or referred to as a lying whore, slut, or ho. I think Don Imus lost his job a year or so ago for calling a couple of African-American women (around my age) “nappy-headed hoes.”

  8. Chuck says:

    I didn’t find anything malicious in the BP article. It’s objective, I’d say, not objectionable.

    Southeastern Seminary’s response sounds quite a bit like that of another blogger we’re familiar with–irrational.

  9. [...] Baptist Press kicks the hornet’s nest The Southern Baptist Convention’s (SBC) Baptist Press (BP) stepped on the heels of pfizer sales of viagra in canada an enthusiastically received North Carolina appearance by Mark Driscoll, with a critical piece. [...]

  10. Tim says:

    Big Daddy, I do believe most women would not like to be called a “lying whore” but where does Driscoll do this? He does not call his female congregants lying whores, but rather states that if the mother of Jesus Christ were not actually a virgin, than our only other option was that she was a lying whore. Do you find this do be untrue, or are you just offended by his word selection. I believe that is the point Leland was trying to make. Would you have been just as offended if he used the www.letoltes.info word “harlot”?

  11. I hereby nominate Tim (& Driscoll, I guess) for the False Dilemma of the Year Award. It’s only February, but I think they’ve got a good chance to bag the trophy by year’s end.

    Good job.

  12. George Frink says:

    Baptist Press seems to have inadvertently cemented some relationships with Driscoll’s ministry.
    Looking over your blog, I see you’ve had your differences with BP in the past.
    I find no evidence online thus far that BP systematically runs corrections/clarifications the way mainstream news services do.
    They revised the “Vulgarity” story, for example, but thus far that revision seems to me to have been without explanation.
    Do they have a blog or other other online resource I have overlooked on which they may have had something to say about this matter and their handling of the “Vulgarity” story?
    Thanks.

    George Frink

  13. Thomas Jefferson says:

    Oh give me a freaking thelogical break!!!

    Do any of you “intelectuals” notice that Jesus references the physical world to help explain the spiritual world? Do your own research!

    Learn a little, extreemely little,”dare I say tiny” bit of advanced physics and cialis soft shop you will quickly realize that man’s so called logic is not able to even grasp the physical world. How can you argue about the spiritual world? Explain to me how nonlocality works in the physical world and then I’ll consider your advanced knowlege of the spiritual world.

  14. [...] students on their campus?” Of course, that’s the same question that could be asked of http://ittinagroup.com/indian-cialis Southern Baptist institutions which have invited Driscoll to speak to their students. One might also question why some SBC leaders have held Acts 29 – founded by Driscoll and [...]

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