More news has come out about the Georgia Baptist Convention vs. First Baptist Decatur.
Here’s John Pierce of Baptists Today:
NEWS
Ga. Baptist leaders warn of further action against church with female pastor
By John Pierce
Baptists TodayDECATUR, Ga. — In her church newsletter column dated Jan. 23, pastor Julie Pennington-Russell of the First Baptist Church of Decatur, Ga., reported on a Jan. 7 visit by representatives of the Georgia Baptist Convention (GBC) who warned her that some unidentified individuals within the convention are seeking a formal “withdrawal of fellowship” from the congregation.
Pennington-Russell reported that Executive Director Robert White — accompanied by GBC Church-Ministers Relations director Danny Watters and Christian Index editor Gerald Harris — informed her and two other church representatives that, while the church is free to call the pastor of their own choosing, the convention is also free to decide with whom they will relate.
Not sure why Bob needed to recruit the editor of a newsjournal to assist with the doing of the GBC’s dirty work. Here’s more:
It was the first direct communication since the convention drafted and passed a somewhat-veiled motion in November 2008 permitting GBC leaders to reject mission funds from the congregation and to prohibit First Baptist members from having representation in the convention. The action was in response to the church calling a female pastor — Pennington-Russell — in August 2007.
She told church members that the GBC representatives explained that a formal “withdrawal of fellowship” would mean that the church could not receive materials or services from the GBC such as training in Vacation Bible School, Sunday school or evangelism.
“Not sure I’d heard correctly, I pressed a little,” she wrote in the column. “Do you mean that if I called you up one day and said—‘The Spirit is doing something amazing at First Baptist Decatur! Waves of men, women and teenagers are responding to God and are being baptized and we could use some additional help in giving them a good foundation. Could you send a team over to meet with our folks?’—are you telling me that the GBC wouldn’t want to help us with that?”
White said he would be willing to help “personally” in such a situation, but not as an official representative of the GBC, Pennington-Russell reported.
Yea. I’m sure that White would be willing to lend a helping hand.
And finally:
White, the GBC executive director, was asked by Baptists Today about the convention’s intentions regarding further action against the Decatur church, the public relations impact of the decision and the result of refusing mission gifts during an economic downturn.
“I have no comment for you on these matters,” he responded.
Nobody should be surprised by this news. This is fundamentalism at its finest.
This is what fundamentalists do. And I’m rather confident that Mr. Integrity, Bob White, is rather supportive of those “unidentified individuals.”
One more quote from Julie P-R:
“Friends, in that hour-long conversation it became crystal clear to me why people are abandoning denominational structures in droves and why denominationalism as it exists today is doomed: It is largely missing the point…most denominational organizations are stuck in bureaucratic systems that have forgotten why they exist in the first place.”
The notion that denominationalism is on the decline is not new. Denominations, particularly mainline denominations, have been steadily losing support over the past few decades. Even conservative bodies like the Southern Baptist Convention are beginning to experience that numerical/financial downward spiral.
It is true that bureaucracies that become bloated often hinder the work of religious organizations. Baptist organizations, particularly state conventions, are not immune from this reality.
But in this particular instance, denominationalism is not to blame. The culprit is fundamentalism.
I think that’s undeniable. In a post-denominational world and in non-denominational settings, fundamentalists will continue to exclude those who refuse to submit and obey.
Straw men aside, folks can praise post-modernism and cheer along the slow death of denominationalism but fundamentalism is here to stay. The Bible will continue to be used to exclude rather than include by integrity-challenged men like Bob White.
Structures are not to blame.
Related posts:
- Georgia Baptists To Oust Women Pastors, FBC Decatur Here’s the story from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Georgia Baptists take...
- Julie Pennington-Russell Leaves Texas For Georgia After almost nine years as Senior Pastor of Calvary Baptist...
- Egalitarian To Be Nominated For President of Southern Baptist Pastors’ Conference As the Georgia Baptist Convention prepares to disfellowship yet another...
- Al Mohler, FBC Decatur, and Julie Pennington-Russell “Gay-baby curing” Al Mohler is the recipient of the highly...
- Waco Church Calls American Baptist Minister During the summer of 2007, Pastor Julie Pennington-Russell left Calvary...
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Brother B’Diddy,
But in this particular instance, denominationalism is not to blame. The culprit is fundamentalism.
Let me get this straight. You believe the SBC is a denomination? I believe if you will look back in your Baptist History books you will find that we have never been a denomination but a convention of churches. If a motion comes to the GBC to dis-fellowship FBC Decatur, that is the churches speaking, not the denomination. Your presumption of fundamentalism being the culprit is even more astounding. Would it no be more correct to say that the culprit is Baptist autonomy?
Blessings,
Tim
The SBC needs more men like Bob White. To him I say “Keep up the good work, brother”. Churches with pastorette’s would be happier associating with other churches that have totally unbiblical practices–like the CBF.
Joe, would “totally unbiblical” churches include those that reject slavery, stoning disobedient children, etc.?
This action is not surprising at all, and actually is consistant with local church autonomy and that of the state convention. The church can do what it wants but the GBC can distant itself from it.
Probably best for all concerned. It has happened before, it will happen again.
Aren’t denominations with many women pastors declining in membership faster than SBC?
Tim,
A religious denomination is simply a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition and identity. Here, the religion is Christianity, more specifically Protestant Christianity. The subgroup is the Southern Baptist Convention. Historians, particularly southern historians, regard the Southern Baptist Convention as a denomination. Baptist historians like Bill Leonard have written about “Baptist denominations” and “Baptist denominationalism.” To call the SBC a denomination is pretty standard.
I remember the big debate over at Burleson’s blog or somewhere else about “Convention vs. Denomination.” As a historian, I’m not going to make that distinction. To do so would likely imply that no Christian body in the Free Church Tradition could qualify as a “denomination” due to our focus on autonomy. Nor am I suggesting that all denominations are structured similarly. Clearly that’s not accurate. And I am willing to concede that when the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in the 19th century, it was not a full-fledged denomination as we would define a denomination in the late 20th century. The SBC might be a denomination differently than the United Methodist Church but it’s still a denomination by modern historical standards.
You could argue that the culprit is autonomy just like others might argue that the culprit is denominationalism. But there are a number of autonomous organizations/fellowships/denominations/conventions (whatever you want to call them) that have not traveled the path of exclusion and instead have embraced an inclusive spirit that affirms cooperation. It is the fundamentalist theology of the messengers to the Georgia Baptist Convention that led that Baptist body to kick FBC Decatur to the curb and possibly kick them again this Fall.
Karen G, where in the world did you get that statistic? Have you seen a study which proves such a claim? I would venture to suggest that perhaps other factors have a stronger causal effect on decline in membership.
From the annualYearbook of American and Canadian Churches published by the National Council of Churches.
For the past several years, denominations increasing in membership are Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness, LDS, Assemblies of God and SBS. Those decreasing fastest are Episcopal (by far), PCUSA, United Church of Christ, United Methodist.
Statistics are only as good as reporting; also, I am not implying a causal relationship — there may be many factors. But generally speaking, the most inclusive denominations seem to be on the steepest multi-year decline.
I mean SBC, not SBS.
When the SBC & KBC kicked my church out in the early ’90s for calling a woman pastor (Rev. Cindy Weber), it freed us up. We became an Alliance of Baptists congregation and heavily involved in the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America, the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists, the Kentucky Council of Churches, and we became a congregational member of the Baptist World Alliance and strengthened our ties to the Baptist Joint Committee.
So, this congregation should likewise think of how this “disfellowshipping” frees them to explore new relationships and an alternative pattern of Baptist identity.
Pretty sure that Decatur made decisions about partnerships/Baptist identity many years ago. Decatur has had a strong relationship with the CBF since the CBF’s inception.
There are apparently a few Decatur members with IMB ties who still support the Cooperative Program. Over the past 5 years, Decatur has taken in over a million in tithes and offerings and passed along to the CP via the GBC an average of 9K per year.
…and now they are coming for the Calvinists:
“Southwestern will not build a school in the future around anybody who could not look anybody in the world in the eyes and say, “Christ died for your sins.” Paige Patterson, SWBTS President, as tape recorded by SBC Today at their “Baptist Identity” blog on February 5, 2009
“A consistent five-point Calvinist cannot look a congregation in the eyes or even a single sinner in the eye and say: “Christ died for you.” What they have to say to be consistent with their own theology is “Christ died for sinners.” Since Christ did not die for the non-elect, and since the five-point Calvinist does not know who the elect are, it is simply not possible in a preaching or witnessing situation to say to them directly “Christ died for you.”Dr. David Allen, Dean, SWBTS School of Theology at BaptistTheology.org / SWBTS Center for Theological Research, November 2008
Hi,
What I find very sad is that so many care less of what the Bible tells us and more about what makes them feel good at that time, you can have all the faith you wait and if its based on a lie what worth will its have? God said a Child shall obey their Mother and Father and a Women shall obey her Husband and a Man shall Obey GOD, it is not shameful for a man to obey God so why is it shameful for a women to obey her husband? What I’m saying is that God’s laws to not change, so even if you wish with all your heart it will do no good. For mans laws will fade with time but God’s LAWS are Forever.
Do not ask that a person of Faith to disobey his Faith, so if the Bible tells you not to do something do not do it.
Mark
Why not just kick SBC to the curve and unite with a Baptist Association that accepts women pastor such at Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Regardless of whether you agree with the SBC position, you have to respect their doctrine if you choose to be a member.