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	<title>Comments on: Turmoil at Ebenezer Baptist Church</title>
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		<title>By: Stephen Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/turmoil-at-ebenezer-baptist-church.html#comment-2554</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=532#comment-2554</guid>
		<description>I got voted out of the church where my Momma was baptized cause of White Women.&lt;br/&gt;   And cause I asked the preacher about Paul Simmon and the politics of abortion in Sunday School.&lt;br/&gt;   Simmons had been the pastor&#039;s Proff at Southern Sem.&lt;br/&gt;   Hankins and Baylor may want to come to Collinsville and do a Case Study on my experience</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got voted out of the church where my Momma was baptized cause of White Women.<br />   And cause I asked the preacher about Paul Simmon and the politics of abortion in Sunday School.<br />   Simmons had been the pastor&#8217;s Proff at Southern Sem.<br />   Hankins and Baylor may want to come to Collinsville and do a Case Study on my experience</p>
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		<title>By: wcsd</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/turmoil-at-ebenezer-baptist-church.html#comment-2548</link>
		<dc:creator>wcsd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Aaron,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have been a reader of your blog, but have not had the chance to offer a post until now.  I also come out of the moderate Baptist background and resonate with the aspect of your post describing the role of the congregation working with the pastor in leading and shaping the direction of the church.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, one aspect to remember is that pastoral authority in the black church has developed differently, and historically in this stream of Baptist life pastors have greater authority in their congregations.  This statememnt is not applicable to all congregations, as some have more congregational involvement and others have changed to allow congregants to have a larger voice, but a numbe4r still are pastor-led churches.  Rev. Dwight Hopper, a professor at the University of Chicago Diviniy School, recently stated that &quot;the black church is probably the only space in America where black men can have unquestioned authority,&quot; he said. &quot;It&#039;s hard to give that up for a lot of black male pastors.&quot;  (quote in Manya A. Brachear&#039;s 2007 article on Obama and Jeremiah Wright)  The pastor has a role in leading and teaching that is not challenged, as well as a high reverence from the congregation (examples of this are events like annually recognizing a pastor&#039;s anniversary, where a love offering is raised).  Based on this authority, congregational dissent is not as prevalent among congregations such as Ebeneezer, so when it occurs the pastor takes a harder line on his authority in the congregation.  This is an area for further study among the various Baptist streams.  It is also a place where conversations occurring after events like the New Baptist Covenant can assist each of us to explore how to navigate pastoral and congregational leadership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>I have been a reader of your blog, but have not had the chance to offer a post until now.  I also come out of the moderate Baptist background and resonate with the aspect of your post describing the role of the congregation working with the pastor in leading and shaping the direction of the church.</p>
<p>However, one aspect to remember is that pastoral authority in the black church has developed differently, and historically in this stream of Baptist life pastors have greater authority in their congregations.  This statememnt is not applicable to all congregations, as some have more congregational involvement and others have changed to allow congregants to have a larger voice, but a numbe4r still are pastor-led churches.  Rev. Dwight Hopper, a professor at the University of Chicago Diviniy School, recently stated that &#8220;the black church is probably the only space in America where black men can have unquestioned authority,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It&#8217;s hard to give that up for a lot of black male pastors.&#8221;  (quote in Manya A. Brachear&#8217;s 2007 article on Obama and Jeremiah Wright)  The pastor has a role in leading and teaching that is not challenged, as well as a high reverence from the congregation (examples of this are events like annually recognizing a pastor&#8217;s anniversary, where a love offering is raised).  Based on this authority, congregational dissent is not as prevalent among congregations such as Ebeneezer, so when it occurs the pastor takes a harder line on his authority in the congregation.  This is an area for further study among the various Baptist streams.  It is also a place where conversations occurring after events like the New Baptist Covenant can assist each of us to explore how to navigate pastoral and congregational leadership.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/turmoil-at-ebenezer-baptist-church.html#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree entirely. It is the loss of congregationalism that makes far more likely the development of blogs, pickets, or other forms of public protest over intracongregational matters. I further agree that the tendency to label those who disagree as &quot;demonic&quot; can be a grave ministry weakness. Certainly there are areas of disagreement that might rise to such a level. &quot;Shall we host a Klan rally in the sanctuary this weekend?&quot; would fit neatly into that category, while &quot;Who shall wave his arms while we sing our hymns on Sunday?&quot; likely does not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree entirely. It is the loss of congregationalism that makes far more likely the development of blogs, pickets, or other forms of public protest over intracongregational matters. I further agree that the tendency to label those who disagree as &#8220;demonic&#8221; can be a grave ministry weakness. Certainly there are areas of disagreement that might rise to such a level. &#8220;Shall we host a Klan rally in the sanctuary this weekend?&#8221; would fit neatly into that category, while &#8220;Who shall wave his arms while we sing our hymns on Sunday?&#8221; likely does not.</p>
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