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	<title>Comments on: The Politics of Jesus &amp; Religious Liberty</title>
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	<description>News &#38; Commentary About All Things Baptist</description>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2540</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2540</guid>
		<description>Were I not opposed to gambling in all forms, we&#039;d have to put a little something riding on the Georgia results. :-)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Congratulations to you guys. Have a bit of mercy on the rest of us when you win. Come visit me in prison in 2011 after I preach from Romans 1. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were I not opposed to gambling in all forms, we&#8217;d have to put a little something riding on the Georgia results. <img src='http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Congratulations to you guys. Have a bit of mercy on the rest of us when you win. Come visit me in prison in 2011 after I preach from Romans 1. <img src='http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Big Daddy Weave</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2538</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Daddy Weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2538</guid>
		<description>As I noted in that post, Virginia has been moving into to the Democratic column over the last few years.  I tend to agree with Pat Buchanan who not long ago said that Virginia has seceded from the Confederacy.  Today&#039;s Virginia is not the &quot;real Virginia&quot; the McCain campaign yearns for.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m admittedly surprised by the poll numbers coming out of Georgia and North Carolina.  West Virginia and Missouri are also surprisingly close.  I still think that McCain will likely win comfortably in Georgia.  But who knows at this point.  High African-American turnout (as seems to be happening with early voting) plus a good showing for Bob Barr and McCain could actually lose Georgia.  When it comes to Georgia, my real hope is that Jim Martin will whoop up on Saxby Chambliss.  I campaigned for Cleland when he lost to Chambliss back in 2002 in a rather ugly campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I noted in that post, Virginia has been moving into to the Democratic column over the last few years.  I tend to agree with Pat Buchanan who not long ago said that Virginia has seceded from the Confederacy.  Today&#8217;s Virginia is not the &#8220;real Virginia&#8221; the McCain campaign yearns for.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m admittedly surprised by the poll numbers coming out of Georgia and North Carolina.  West Virginia and Missouri are also surprisingly close.  I still think that McCain will likely win comfortably in Georgia.  But who knows at this point.  High African-American turnout (as seems to be happening with early voting) plus a good showing for Bob Barr and McCain could actually lose Georgia.  When it comes to Georgia, my real hope is that Jim Martin will whoop up on Saxby Chambliss.  I campaigned for Cleland when he lost to Chambliss back in 2002 in a rather ugly campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Barber</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2537</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Barber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 21:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2537</guid>
		<description>Big Daddy,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Not only do you sound a bit like McCain, but you are likely to garner nearly as many electoral votes on Nov 4.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;:-)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Pardon me for yanking upon your chain, but I could not resist. On Feb 9 you came to &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://praisegodbarebones.blogspot.com/2008/02/recipe-for-republican-defeat.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a post on my blog&lt;/a&gt; and expressed doubt that Democrats could manage to pick off any Southern states this Fall. As of this moment, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RealClearPolitics&lt;/a&gt; forecasts VA for Obama and NC as a toss-up (polling in Obama&#039;s favor). Georgia is categorized as &quot;leaning McCain,&quot; but the margin there is thin—barely outside the margin of error. I don&#039;t know whether you consider MO to be a &quot;Southern&quot; state, but it will go to Obama, too, I predict.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Do you remain resolute about the South being solid for the GOP?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m predicting Georgia for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big Daddy,</p>
<p>Not only do you sound a bit like McCain, but you are likely to garner nearly as many electoral votes on Nov 4.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Pardon me for yanking upon your chain, but I could not resist. On Feb 9 you came to <a HREF="http://praisegodbarebones.blogspot.com/2008/02/recipe-for-republican-defeat.html" REL="nofollow">a post on my blog</a> and expressed doubt that Democrats could manage to pick off any Southern states this Fall. As of this moment, <a HREF="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/" REL="nofollow">RealClearPolitics</a> forecasts VA for Obama and NC as a toss-up (polling in Obama&#39;s favor). Georgia is categorized as &quot;leaning McCain,&quot; but the margin there is thin—barely outside the margin of error. I don&#39;t know whether you consider MO to be a &quot;Southern&quot; state, but it will go to Obama, too, I predict.</p>
<p>Do you remain resolute about the South being solid for the GOP?</p>
<p>I&#39;m predicting Georgia for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: karen g</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2533</link>
		<dc:creator>karen g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2533</guid>
		<description>My reasoning: state and federal governments deem it good public policy to support heterosexual marriage; their reasoning is probably set forth in the legislative history of laws like DOMA.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My opinion, on which you&#039;ve focused, was separately stated and religiously motivated.  Like an amicus brief by Catholic bishops joining others in legal argument, it&#039;s a voice in the public discourse.  As you noted, government isn&#039;t going to adopt much without a broad coalition of secular support and reasoning. If they did, yes it would be constitutionally vulnerable.  Those First Amendment lines can be hard to predict, depending on circumstances and how government money is spent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My reasoning: state and federal governments deem it good public policy to support heterosexual marriage; their reasoning is probably set forth in the legislative history of laws like DOMA.</p>
<p>My opinion, on which you&#8217;ve focused, was separately stated and religiously motivated.  Like an amicus brief by Catholic bishops joining others in legal argument, it&#8217;s a voice in the public discourse.  As you noted, government isn&#8217;t going to adopt much without a broad coalition of secular support and reasoning. If they did, yes it would be constitutionally vulnerable.  Those First Amendment lines can be hard to predict, depending on circumstances and how government money is spent.</p>
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		<title>By: thecooper</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>thecooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 04:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>Then we agree that were the government to decide anything based on your reasoning, it would be a First Amendment violation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then we agree that were the government to decide anything based on your reasoning, it would be a First Amendment violation.</p>
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		<title>By: karen g</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>karen g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>That is why I separated my religiously-motivated opinion from the legal argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is why I separated my religiously-motivated opinion from the legal argument.</p>
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		<title>By: thecooper</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2529</link>
		<dc:creator>thecooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2529</guid>
		<description>No, I don&#039;t think that it does,  because I don&#039;t think that your motivation--the government endorsing &quot;His concept&quot;--is the legal intent of the current law.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m just pointing out that if one makes an argument as you have made, there&#039;s no way to avoid an establishment-clause problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don&#8217;t think that it does,  because I don&#8217;t think that your motivation&#8211;the government endorsing &#8220;His concept&#8221;&#8211;is the legal intent of the current law.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just pointing out that if one makes an argument as you have made, there&#8217;s no way to avoid an establishment-clause problem.</p>
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		<title>By: karen g</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>karen g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2528</guid>
		<description>Are you saying that &quot;restricting the institution of marriage to just opposite-sex couples&quot; violates the First Amendment by endorsing religion?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Haven&#039;t heard that one before. Seems convoluted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you saying that &#8220;restricting the institution of marriage to just opposite-sex couples&#8221; violates the First Amendment by endorsing religion?</p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t heard that one before. Seems convoluted.</p>
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		<title>By: thecooper</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2525</link>
		<dc:creator>thecooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2525</guid>
		<description>An interesting take, with which I think I agree, on the religion-in-politics thing comes from Daniel Dennett.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Being religiously motivated to enter the public discourse is fine.  To be expected, even--to do otherwise would betray one&#039;s faith.  But when asked to defend one&#039;s religiously-inspired positions, religious explanations do not suffice.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Jesus says to feed the hungry and clothe the poor.  This may convince Christians of your policy proposal (or it may not. . .), but it won&#039;t have any traction with a Hindu.  So part of your divine mandate is not only to espouse the position, but to defend it in a way which will convince those whom God has not inspired with the same conviction.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s fine for religion and politics to mix in an inspirational sense, so long as there are secular reasons for the policies.  Which it seems to me is the gist of the first prong of the Lemon Test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting take, with which I think I agree, on the religion-in-politics thing comes from Daniel Dennett.</p>
<p>Being religiously motivated to enter the public discourse is fine.  To be expected, even&#8211;to do otherwise would betray one&#8217;s faith.  But when asked to defend one&#8217;s religiously-inspired positions, religious explanations do not suffice.</p>
<p>Jesus says to feed the hungry and clothe the poor.  This may convince Christians of your policy proposal (or it may not. . .), but it won&#8217;t have any traction with a Hindu.  So part of your divine mandate is not only to espouse the position, but to defend it in a way which will convince those whom God has not inspired with the same conviction.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fine for religion and politics to mix in an inspirational sense, so long as there are secular reasons for the policies.  Which it seems to me is the gist of the first prong of the Lemon Test.</p>
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		<title>By: thecooper</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2008/10/the-politics-of-jesus-religious-liberty.html#comment-2524</link>
		<dc:creator>thecooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=529#comment-2524</guid>
		<description>&quot;Having His concept out there in public is both historical and, IMO, salt and light even to those who don&#039;t believe.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#039;His concept&#039; of marriage *is* out there, regardless of the status of the law.  As it is, any church can marry any two (or more. . .) people it wants--provided they don&#039;t seek government sanction.  Did the Early Church need the Roman Imperial imprimatur to bless its unions?  Were they any less salt and light?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Restricting the legal institution of marriage to just opposite-sex couples is not &#039;having His concept out there in public&#039;; it&#039;s &#039;having the government endorse His concept&#039;.  God does not need, and the First Amendment does not permit, that sort of endorsement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Having His concept out there in public is both historical and, IMO, salt and light even to those who don&#8217;t believe.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8216;His concept&#8217; of marriage *is* out there, regardless of the status of the law.  As it is, any church can marry any two (or more. . .) people it wants&#8211;provided they don&#8217;t seek government sanction.  Did the Early Church need the Roman Imperial imprimatur to bless its unions?  Were they any less salt and light?</p>
<p>Restricting the legal institution of marriage to just opposite-sex couples is not &#8216;having His concept out there in public&#8217;; it&#8217;s &#8216;having the government endorse His concept&#8217;.  God does not need, and the First Amendment does not permit, that sort of endorsement.</p>
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