I would ask for a refund of my donations and tell them all to go fuck themselves as they will burn in hell for hypocrisy…..just like Jerry Falwell.

You don’t have to leave. Do we really come here thinking that we can this easily change such solid beliefs in others? No. We debate these issues so that we all have a stronger understanding of each other. If you read through the Bible and see that something in there is refuted by scientific findings, bring it up. We’ll do our best, as you would expect, to show why the Bible is still true.

If neither of us will change, what is the purpose? We cannot fully understand God and scientists cannot fully explain why things are the way they are. We inform each other and debate each others’ views in order to more solidify our understandings. Galileo was excommunicated for believing the earth revolved around the sun. I am glad science has helped us understand the truth. Despite all the different theories about creation, doesn’t intelligent design just seem the most logical? Many modern scientists think so. I bet they’re glad the Bible has helped them understand. It is through these discussions that better ourselves.

First, can you please point me to the place in the Bible were it says that the world is flat? You keep going on with this, but where does the Bible make this claim?

The truth is that there are places in the Bible where the earth is described as spherical – Job 26:7-10; Isaiah 40:20-21; Proverbs 8:27. If your only defense here is the “four corners the earth”, a phrase used in the OT and NT, then you might want to educate yourself on the Greek and Hebrew meanings of those words, instead of reading atheistic and skeptical talking points.

And science does change in vast ways. Remember global cooling? That was only a few years ago. And today it seems daily scientists are coming out against the conclusions of so-called global warming experts (one of the latest being the FOUNDER of the Weather Channel). So science does change, and among the biggest problems have been “social scientists” who claim all sorts of things that turn out to be biased.

But this argument isn’t really about science. Science has proven absolutely nothing about homosexuality. NOTHING! I am so sick of this ignorant argument.

As Christians we should care less about matching our beliefs to so-called science (which, BTW, God HIMESELF, invented) and more about matching our lives to Biblical morals. We are called to live holy lives, not lives pushed in the direction of science. In the end, when we stand before God we will be judged on our actions according to the Word of God, not the word of science.

As for your statement, “Just be prepared to further alienate yourself from the intellectual world – this is why Southern Baptists are becoming the laughing stock of the world,” let me offer this amazingly stark pronouncement by Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:

18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” 20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

I didn’t recognize your (new?) user name, but clicked on the link, so I now know who I am addressing.

What kinds of homosexuality are forbidden? All kinds–consentual for all parties, criminal for the criminal.

In regards to homosexuality, what “new thing” would God be doing in our midst? The end time accounts indicate the earth is still populated, so rule out God now endorsing homosexuality which, taken to its logical conclusion, would annihilate the human race.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at regarding the flat earth vs. round earth statement. All I meant was if you are going to interpret science through a biblical lens then wouldn’t you have to think the world is flat? I don’t interpret science through a Biblical lens because the Bible is not a book of science. It’s like interpreting an apple through an orange…it doesn’t make sense.

Science changes; I think I would agree there. Obviously the science that came to the conclusion that the earth is flat is far inferior to the science that learned the earth is round. Apparently the science used by Biblical writers (sight) was incomplete. I could think the stars are just bright dots in the sky by my own conclusions, but obviously we know now that they are not simply that.

So in a sense I don’t understand what you mean by “We don’t have to change.” When I learn something that changes my view on a certain subject I had before, then yes I change. Why deny that?

If you are more knowledgeable in the science realm, then more power to you. It’s totally cool to go against the majority of scientists on an overwhelmingly agreed upon issue if you like (Age of earth, global warming, sexual orientation). Just be prepared to further alienate yourself from the intellectual world – this is why Southern Baptists are becoming the laughing stock of the world.

I’ll stick to anonymity right now, because who knows? I could be VERY close to you…mwahahahaha!

I am with Wade B on posting in anon, just say your name.

Yes I do practice what I say. So you are with some of the greatest scientists of all time in saying that the earth is flat? or did you not know that the round view has only been held for a thousand years?

Do you hold with the scientists who agree with carbon dating or those who think it is incorrect due to certain instabilities in the nature of carbon? (I started college as a chemical engineering major) Is it really possible for something to come from nothing or do you also hold to the ‘alien spore’ theory? Can a massive flood mixed with earthquakes and the ground being torn apart disrupt the layers of the earth?

The fact is, science changes. Does that mean we have to change? NO. The Bible does not say God created the world flat or round, simply that He created it. So, we hold to the Bible and let science change its opinon as often as it likes. We know the Truth! Theories can explain why the truth is true, but they cannot prove it false, which is why noone yet has managed to proove the Bible wrong even according to strict inerrant interpretation.

JC, I really appreciate what you guys are trying to do, but what do you do with 1 Corinthians 6:9?

I’m sorry man, but I don’t think we can toss out 2000+ years of consistent Church teaching on homosexuality for a less than 50 year old reading of Romans 1 (which came ironically during a sexual revolution not seen since the pre-Christian Roman empire) that defies it. While I can appreciate your willingness to examine Scripture in fresh ways, you have to go beyond cultural concerns to make a case for violating Church History on such a serious matter upon which hangs the salvation of many, many men and women.

I challenge you to read Robert Gagnon’s book, The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics. While many conservative authors exist, few deal as comprehensively with the subject as does Gagnon. And few liberal commentators have been willing to take him on. Additionally, you might want to check out my exposition on Romans 1 on my blog:

Homosexuality and The Apostle Paul: A Study on Romans 1:26-27.

I truly hope you practice what you say about interpreting science in light of God’s word. I hope that you believe the earth is flat and held up by four pillars. I hope that you believe that the sun stopped in the sky (which implied it was moving). I hope that you believe dinosaurs existed on this earth in the last 6,000 years.

Once you discount these beliefs, your entire argument falls apart. How does it not? Science speaks against all of these.

Christianity is a belief that inherently disregards much of what science tells us. We believe, for example, that a man was raised from the dead – clearly an impossibility in the science realm. So the Christian faith naturally ignores certain aspects of science in certain circumstances – no argument there.

You may believe that what happened in Joshua was just a “perception” of what the writer could actually see and that he was unable to know that the universe is heliocentric due to his limited understanding of astronomy. Fair enough, but this idea is brought into the text due to presumptions you have already made, not necessarily ones that the Bible has made. The Bible is no less real or authoritative to me because of certain intellectual shortcomings of the author(s).

If considering ideas like anything other than a literal 6 day creation, homosexuality as orientation rather than choice, or a round earth is dangerous to one’s faith, then I would suggest that his or her faith is resting on the wrong foundation.