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	<title>Comments on: That Good Ole Idolatrous Civil Religion&#8230;.</title>
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	<description>News &#38; Commentary About All Things Baptist</description>
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		<title>By: healtheland</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1212</link>
		<dc:creator>healtheland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1212</guid>
		<description>&quot;The three protesters, who all belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America&quot; ... excuse me, the Bible says &quot;thou shalt not murder.&quot; And anyone who claims that life begins at birth has never seen an ultrasound. As a matter of fact, Georgia State University, an institution that you are most certainly familiar with, big daddy weave, has research going on right now studying how a child&#039;s personality develops WHILE STILL IN THE WOMB. (Apparently the pro - abortion types have not been able to shut it down yet.) Pregnant women report that they can feel their fetuses playing and having a grand old time even in the first trimester, and ultrasound proves it. You want to know what else? Most doctors are pro - life. Studies show it, but the media won&#039;t report it. Even in liberal great Britian, so few doctors are willing to perform abortions that there is a shortage, so the pro - abortion crowd is trying to get leglslation passed that will allow nurses to perform the procedure. http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/more-abortion-rights-lies-exposed-british-doctors-refusing-to-do-abortions/ and http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/most-doctors-are-pro-life/. Now the media covers this up. They only talk to the politicians who run the American Medical Association and the ideological warriors that work in our elite medical schools to give the false impression that every doctor that didn&#039;t graduate from (now - defunct) Oral Roberts University Medical School is pro - abortion. Operation Save America may be wrong in their opposition to religious freedom (which I support) but they are completely right in their opposition to murder of the unborn, and science proves it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The three protesters, who all belong to the Christian Right anti-abortion group Operation Save America&#8221; &#8230; excuse me, the Bible says &#8220;thou shalt not murder.&#8221; And anyone who claims that life begins at birth has never seen an ultrasound. As a matter of fact, Georgia State University, an institution that you are most certainly familiar with, big daddy weave, has research going on right now studying how a child&#8217;s personality develops WHILE STILL IN THE WOMB. (Apparently the pro &#8211; abortion types have not been able to shut it down yet.) Pregnant women report that they can feel their fetuses playing and having a grand old time even in the first trimester, and ultrasound proves it. You want to know what else? Most doctors are pro &#8211; life. Studies show it, but the media won&#8217;t report it. Even in liberal great Britian, so few doctors are willing to perform abortions that there is a shortage, so the pro &#8211; abortion crowd is trying to get leglslation passed that will allow nurses to perform the procedure. <a href="http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/more-abortion-rights-lies-exposed-british-doctors-refusing-to-do-abortions/" rel="nofollow">http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/more-abortion-rights-lies-exposed-british-doctors-refusing-to-do-abortions/</a> and <a href="http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/most-doctors-are-pro-life/" rel="nofollow">http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/most-doctors-are-pro-life/</a>. Now the media covers this up. They only talk to the politicians who run the American Medical Association and the ideological warriors that work in our elite medical schools to give the false impression that every doctor that didn&#8217;t graduate from (now &#8211; defunct) Oral Roberts University Medical School is pro &#8211; abortion. Operation Save America may be wrong in their opposition to religious freedom (which I support) but they are completely right in their opposition to murder of the unborn, and science proves it.</p>
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		<title>By: Monk-in-training</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1197</link>
		<dc:creator>Monk-in-training</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1197</guid>
		<description>Somehow in the last couple of decades, Christians decided that we must force “Christian” values on everyone in America. That we must “take America back”. This process does not seem to be working well, at least not in creating vibrant, Gospel filled lifestyles in our political class.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I simply do not understand how forcing others to comply with “Christian” values through laws, regulation, or any type of political and economic influence creates in those needing Christ, a desire to look to Him. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I can only imagine what the world would be like, if we loved every one with the same energy that we spend vilifying those political foes we are in conflict with.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;How is this Hindu minister going to think of Christians now? He will always remember them as excluders, condemners.  Where is the love of Jesus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow in the last couple of decades, Christians decided that we must force “Christian” values on everyone in America. That we must “take America back”. This process does not seem to be working well, at least not in creating vibrant, Gospel filled lifestyles in our political class.</p>
<p>I simply do not understand how forcing others to comply with “Christian” values through laws, regulation, or any type of political and economic influence creates in those needing Christ, a desire to look to Him. </p>
<p>I can only imagine what the world would be like, if we loved every one with the same energy that we spend vilifying those political foes we are in conflict with.</p>
<p>How is this Hindu minister going to think of Christians now? He will always remember them as excluders, condemners.  Where is the love of Jesus?</p>
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		<title>By: Big Daddy Weave</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1192</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Daddy Weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1192</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s idolatrous when we mix traditional religion with national life.  Over time the two become indistinguishible and we&#039;re left with a watered down worthless civil religion.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Government-sponsored prayers whether they be in the chambers of Congress or during the graduation ceremony of a public high school are two such examples.  No prophetic witness to be had there....&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Wiley Drake and others of his ilk may desire to impose their faith on others through any means necessary.  But a coerced faith is really no faith at all.  Voluntarism.  For religious faith to be authentic, it must be free and cannot be coerced.  One comes to Jesus Christ freely or one does not really come to Jesus Christ.  One accepts the Christian faith voluntarily or not authentically.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The principle of voluntarism goes out of the window when children and even adults are forced to listen to Christians or whomever pray (and in some cases preach!).  Thankfully, this is why teachers don&#039;t recite Bible verses and read government-written prayers in the classroom etc. etc....&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We have bigger issues to deal with than whether Congress opens each session with an insipid prayer.  But such acts of Civil Religion do trivialize and water down authentic faith - which I find in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s idolatrous when we mix traditional religion with national life.  Over time the two become indistinguishible and we&#8217;re left with a watered down worthless civil religion.  </p>
<p>Government-sponsored prayers whether they be in the chambers of Congress or during the graduation ceremony of a public high school are two such examples.  No prophetic witness to be had there&#8230;.</p>
<p>Wiley Drake and others of his ilk may desire to impose their faith on others through any means necessary.  But a coerced faith is really no faith at all.  Voluntarism.  For religious faith to be authentic, it must be free and cannot be coerced.  One comes to Jesus Christ freely or one does not really come to Jesus Christ.  One accepts the Christian faith voluntarily or not authentically.</p>
<p>The principle of voluntarism goes out of the window when children and even adults are forced to listen to Christians or whomever pray (and in some cases preach!).  Thankfully, this is why teachers don&#8217;t recite Bible verses and read government-written prayers in the classroom etc. etc&#8230;.</p>
<p>We have bigger issues to deal with than whether Congress opens each session with an insipid prayer.  But such acts of Civil Religion do trivialize and water down authentic faith &#8211; which I find in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Baggett</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1191</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1191</guid>
		<description>Actually, I had one at each.  I studied other religions quite in-depth in the amazing Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism, and Church Growth.  Thanks for asking.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And your description of Hinduism as, &quot;...a variety of beliefs including monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, monism and even atheism,&quot; is pretty accurate.  But I would submit that any &quot;faith&quot; that is in any way defined by polytheism is, by sheer definition, polytheistic.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Back home we say, &quot;They believe in so much, they don&#039;t believe in anything at all.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I simply cannot fathom regarding (as you seem to) the claim of Christ to be &quot;the way,&quot; the only way to the Father, is idolatrous.  It&#039;s just the Gospel.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The people who yelled and screamed were out of line, I&#039;ll admit.  In moments like these I just scream on the inside. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I had one at each.  I studied other religions quite in-depth in the amazing Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism, and Church Growth.  Thanks for asking.  </p>
<p>And your description of Hinduism as, &#8220;&#8230;a variety of beliefs including monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, monism and even atheism,&#8221; is pretty accurate.  But I would submit that any &#8220;faith&#8221; that is in any way defined by polytheism is, by sheer definition, polytheistic.</p>
<p>Back home we say, &#8220;They believe in so much, they don&#8217;t believe in anything at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>I simply cannot fathom regarding (as you seem to) the claim of Christ to be &#8220;the way,&#8221; the only way to the Father, is idolatrous.  It&#8217;s just the Gospel.</p>
<p>The people who yelled and screamed were out of line, I&#8217;ll admit.  In moments like these I just scream on the inside. <img src='http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Big Daddy Weave</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1190</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Daddy Weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1190</guid>
		<description>Viewing an entire religion through monolithic lens....&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don&#039;t you think it would be a mistake for any person to view any religion as one uniform, monolithic group?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Do they even offer comparative religions courses at Luther Rice and the New Southern Baptist Theological Seminary?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;They did at the University of Georgia.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No postmodernity.  The diversity of Hinduism clearly allow for a variety of beliefs including monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, monism and even atheism.  My original statement is quite acceptable in the academy.  Look up Huston Smith - one of the most preeminent comparative religion scholars in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Viewing an entire religion through monolithic lens&#8230;.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think it would be a mistake for any person to view any religion as one uniform, monolithic group?  </p>
<p>Do they even offer comparative religions courses at Luther Rice and the New Southern Baptist Theological Seminary?</p>
<p>They did at the University of Georgia.  </p>
<p>No postmodernity.  The diversity of Hinduism clearly allow for a variety of beliefs including monotheism, polytheism, pantheism, monism and even atheism.  My original statement is quite acceptable in the academy.  Look up Huston Smith &#8211; one of the most preeminent comparative religion scholars in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Baggett</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1189</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Baggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1189</guid>
		<description>Hinduism is not necessarily polytheistic?&lt;br/&gt;Riiiiiight... Only in postmodernity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hinduism is not necessarily polytheistic?<br />Riiiiiight&#8230; Only in postmodernity.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Daddy Weave</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1186</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Daddy Weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1186</guid>
		<description>Both seem monotheistic and largely non-sectarian...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If you narrowly define monotheistic to mean Jewish or Christian - well no sir, the Hindu Chaplain&#039;s prayer doesn&#039;t fit that bill.  But neither does GW&#039;s.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, Hinduism is not necessarily polytheistic.  To many, Hinduism is completely monotheistic.  A diverse religion indeed.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now that was one line of many from my post.  If you have something to contribute concerning the entire post - (your feelings on Civil Religion, the actions of the protesters, etc...) then please contribute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both seem monotheistic and largely non-sectarian&#8230;</p>
<p>If you narrowly define monotheistic to mean Jewish or Christian &#8211; well no sir, the Hindu Chaplain&#8217;s prayer doesn&#8217;t fit that bill.  But neither does GW&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Also, Hinduism is not necessarily polytheistic.  To many, Hinduism is completely monotheistic.  A diverse religion indeed.</p>
<p>Now that was one line of many from my post.  If you have something to contribute concerning the entire post &#8211; (your feelings on Civil Religion, the actions of the protesters, etc&#8230;) then please contribute.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil Gulick</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1185</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil Gulick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1185</guid>
		<description>I am so tired of hearing that &quot;separation of church and state&quot; cannot be found in the constitution.    The words may not be there, but the concept is.  If we use the logic that the exact words have to appear, where are we left with &quot;trinity&quot; in the New Testament.  The last time I read my Bible, the word trinity wasn&#039;t in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so tired of hearing that &#8220;separation of church and state&#8221; cannot be found in the constitution.    The words may not be there, but the concept is.  If we use the logic that the exact words have to appear, where are we left with &#8220;trinity&#8221; in the New Testament.  The last time I read my Bible, the word trinity wasn&#8217;t in there.</p>
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		<title>By: peter lumpkins</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1184</link>
		<dc:creator>peter lumpkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1184</guid>
		<description>BDW,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Are you suggesting that GW&#039;s prayers to &quot;nature&#039;s God&quot; is similar to our Hindu&#039;s &quot;Deity Supreme&quot;?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;With that, I am...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BDW,</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that GW&#8217;s prayers to &#8220;nature&#8217;s God&#8221; is similar to our Hindu&#8217;s &#8220;Deity Supreme&#8221;?</p>
<p>With that, I am&#8230;</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Trabue</title>
		<link>http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/2007/07/that-good-ole-idolatrous-civil-religion.html#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Trabue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thebigdaddyweave.com/?p=256#comment-1183</guid>
		<description>&quot;By the way, I believe it was Senate Majority Leader Reid that invited the Hindu chaplain.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Seriously, I want to know: Do y&#039;all want freedom of religion for everyone or just the ones that you think fit within the realm of Christian?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If a Senator - who presumably has freedom of religion - asks a Hindu - who presumably has freedom of religion - to pray, why would we stop that? Are you calling for freedom of religion, but on a &quot;Don&#039;t ask/Don&#039;t tell&quot; sort of policy if that religion isn&#039;t mainstream Christian?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Surely you don&#039;t want to legalize only Christianity??! (I don&#039;t think anyone does, but I&#039;m not sure what conclusion to draw from those opposed to this hindu prayer.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By the way, I believe it was Senate Majority Leader Reid that invited the Hindu chaplain.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seriously, I want to know: Do y&#8217;all want freedom of religion for everyone or just the ones that you think fit within the realm of Christian?</p>
<p>If a Senator &#8211; who presumably has freedom of religion &#8211; asks a Hindu &#8211; who presumably has freedom of religion &#8211; to pray, why would we stop that? Are you calling for freedom of religion, but on a &#8220;Don&#8217;t ask/Don&#8217;t tell&#8221; sort of policy if that religion isn&#8217;t mainstream Christian?</p>
<p>Surely you don&#8217;t want to legalize only Christianity??! (I don&#8217;t think anyone does, but I&#8217;m not sure what conclusion to draw from those opposed to this hindu prayer.)</p>
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